Tuesday, August 26, 2025

That old "Fire and Ice" sync

My 2019 post "Fire and ice" tells the story, insofar as I could remember it, of the first synchronicity ever to get my attention. It involved coming across the same four lines from Robert Frost's poem "Fire and Ice" twice within the space of an hour -- once in a sermon on chastity and once in a popular science book. At the time of that post, I thought that I might have been around 12 years old and that the book might have been one of Carl Sagan's, but I couldn't remember very clearly. However, I'm now confident that I've found the two documents that figured in the sync. It wasn't Sagan, and I wasn't 12.

The sermon was "Of Souls, Symbols, and Sacraments," a speech delivered by Jeffrey R. Holland on January 12, 1988, at Brigham Young University, of which institution he was at that time the president. Here is where he first quotes Frost:

May I begin with half of a nine-line poem by Robert Frost. (The other half is worth a sermon also, but it will have to wait for another day.) Here are the first four lines of Frost’s “Fire and Ice.”

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.

A second, less poetic but more specific opinion is offered by the writer of Proverbs:

Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?
Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned? . . .
But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.
A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away. [Proverbs 6:27–33]

In getting at the doctrinal seriousness, why is this matter of sexual relationships so severe that fire is almost always the metaphor, with passion pictured vividly in flames? What is there in the potentially hurtful heat of this that leaves one’s soul—or perhaps the whole world, according to Frost—destroyed, if that flame is left unchecked and those passions unrestrained? . . .

Notice that the Frost quote is immediately followed by a second quote, described as "less poetic" and "by the writer of Proverbs." This will be relevant later.

Later in the speech, Holland quotes the same four lines of Frost once more:

Someday, somewhere, ­sometime the morally unclean will, until they repent, pray like the rich man, wishing Lazarus to “dip . . . his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame” (Luke 16:24).

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.

The popular science book was, it turns out, Hyperspace by Michio Kaku, published on March 24, 1994, just nine days after my 15th birthday. The four lines from Frost serve as an epigraph to the 14th chapter:


As in the Holland speech, Frost is immediately followed by a second quote, in prose, in this case Yogi Berra's "It ain't over 'til it's over." The legacy of Yogi Berra is quite similar to that of the authors of Proverbs: a collection of short, memorable sayings.

I clearly wasn't 12 when this sync occurred. Given my reading habits at the time, I almost certainly would have read Hyperspace as soon as it was available at the local public library, so probably in 1994, when I was 15 years old. That's a reasonable time for me to have read Holland's speech, too. Jeffrey R. Holland became a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles -- one of the CJCLDS's top 15 leaders worldwide -- on June 23, 1994, just two months after Hyperspace was published. That would be a natural time for people to be reading and recommending old speeches by Jeffrey R. Holland, such as "Of Souls, Symbols, and Sacraments."

The only remaining question mark is how I came to read Holland and Kaku within an hour of each other. My family was quite strict about Sabbath observance, and I wouldn't have been reading a secular book like Hyperspace on a Sunday -- but I find it hard to imagine myself reading a sermon on chastity on any other day of the week! My best guess is that we read Holland's speech, or part of it, in early-morning seminary on a weekday. Since I was at that time following a rather loose "homeschooling" program that mostly consisted of just reading whatever I wanted, I might easily have come home from a Very Special Lesson on chastity in early-morning seminary and turned immediately to a pop-sci book for "school." (Actually, everybody else should be putting that word in scare-quotes. School as "leisure" is etymologically correct.) That's my best guess as to what happened.

Or perhaps the "within an hour" bit was misremembered, just as I'd misremembered by age at the time. Certainly it was a very short interval that made the coincidence seem impossible.

What prompted my revisiting of this old Frost sync was the more recent Frost sync documented in "The woods are lovely, dark and deep." Interestingly, this more recent sync also involves someone quoting only four lines of a longer poem by Frost. This quotation was in a movie whose Chinese name translates to Nine Shots. Holland makes a point of saying that the Frost poem he is quoting is nine lines in length, and Hyperspace was published nine days after my birthday.

13 comments:

NLR said...

Interesting.

Not being able to read ancient Hebrew, nor having grown up speaking it, it's hard to say the second is less poetic. But I guess he meant as an English speaker.

William Wright (WW) said...

It may be interesting given my previous comments around a "Bear" that the Robert Frost quote in "Fate of the Universe" is followed by that quote by Yogi Berra. The actual cartoon bear, Yogi Bear, had a name that was based on this baseball player.

Yogi Berra's real name was Lawrence Peter Berra, by the way. So we have another Peter link, and to a Bear, nonetheless. In addition, these quotes are found in the 14th chapter. 14 is the number I had assigned to Peter-Ingwe, when I was exploring that story, as being the final or last of the 14 Vanyar who remain ungathered (82 currently taken somewhere, 14 still TBD, for the total of 96 of the 144 that needed to be gathered first).

It looks like I wrote those comments, which are on found on your "The Smith and the Waster" post and link back directly to that Fire and Ice post, at the same time you were writing this post.

Anyway, the association with Fire and Ice with Adultery, per Holland's speech, also struck me as relevant, given previous commentary regarding associations with the Great Whore, and the fall of her kingdom. In terms of the end by fire, it is that Great Whore who Joseph Smith specifically cites as the Tares to be burned in his writings found in D&C 88:

"And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all the nations drink of the wine of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood - she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea - behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it."

Given that we are talking about "the end", and the potential for all who want to come and repent of associations with the GAC (all of us, as represented by the language of the Great Whore having made the nations to drink the wine of her fornication), it seems Yogi Berra's quote is also potentially relevant. It ain't over till it's over.

Given the association of Peter with gates, doorways, and keys, it also seems interesting that these links are in a book called "Hyperspace". That term has been used or associated with Star Wars, and on my blog I used it frequently to describe the bending or manipulation of spacetime, or the Warp and Woof of reality, in order to take people to a place very far away from this earth. If this Earth is Hell (likely so, in my opinion, given a devil rules it), then the tradition of the Gates of Hell not prevailing against the rock on which Peter's name was word-gamed seems even more interesting in relation to the concept of Hyperspace and bringing people out of hell and to a safe place, taking leaps from lion's heads, etc.

William Wright (WW) said...

I should also note that part of the story has involved theft and trespassing, as in with the dream of "you" in the refrigerator, Pharazon trespassing on land he shouldn't have, etc., and the other Robert Frost poem, "Stopping by the woods on a snowy evening" also involves knowingly trespassing on someone else's property, at least initially, figuring they will not be seen by the owner of said woods, since they are known to have a house down in the village. All three cases - my dream of the refrigerator, Numenor covered in ice, and Robert Frost watching woods fill up with snow - involve cold/snow/ice.

The concept of stopping in dark woods (the darkest night of the year) and thinking they they won't be seen or observed by the owner also would seem at least a partial tie to your other post, or at least the title of it, called "SeekDeep", and the scripture you linked to:

"And wo unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord! And their works are in the dark; and they say: Who seeth us, and who knoweth us?"

In my dream of the individual who was raiding the refrigerator, the lights were first off, and they were working in darkness, and then the lights were turned on. The Being was shown wearing a cloak and hood, and those voices said "Beware this one!", and they laughed.

They then continued on with that other phrase "When I dream, I dream about books!", which we think might be about you as well.

Interestingly, though, the voices then go into a dialogue on "resurrection". Given my comments a couple days earlier where I left those words I had from April which said "Resurrection Robert Frost delay" and linked that potentially to the resurrection of Robert Frost, I wonder if that is relevant?

Here is that excerpt, including the resurrection piece (this excerpt was like multiple voices almost talking over each other, and lots of laughing):

April 22
"Them to have power to bring forth my word
Eru as Christ the Lord
Good times to roll!
And it is the word of the Lord. Encore!
...
Why is that our feet never touch the sky as we rise to the silver pedestal?
Beware this one! (scene of a character caught red-handed stealing food from the fridge)
When I dream, I dream about books!
When you're dead, you're dead... but of course there is the resurrection that Jesus taught about.
...
The resurrection is the transformation of two parts into one glorious whole - something for men"

I just noticed now we also have the resurrection referred to here as a transformation.

Wm Jas Tychonievich said...

NLR, I think he just meant that our King James Version of Proverbs is written in prose, not verse. The Hebrew original actually is in verse, though.

Wm Jas Tychonievich said...

I never realized that Yogi wasn't Berra's "biological name," as a friend prone to Berra-style malapropisms once put it. Actually, looking him up now, I see he was born Lorenzo Pietro Berra. Lorenzo Snow featured in lots of syncs here a while back, and there may be some connection between the man named Snow and the man named Frost.

"When you're dead, you're dead," as a tautology with the key word repeated, is similar in form to "It ain't over till it's over."

Ra1119bee said...

William,
Part 1 of 3
 You wrote :"When you're dead, you're dead," as a tautology
with the key word repeated, is similar in
 form to "It ain't over till it's over."
~~~~~~~
Which begs the question, at least IMHO ; Until what
Exactly is over?

If your attempt is to go down the Yogi Berra (Bear)
path as a possible connection
and puzzle piece to a bigger picture and
 if your intent is to solve the puzzle, (which it appears
your soul wants you to do since, and IMHO, 
your soul has been giving you' transformation ' puzzle pieces,
starting at age 15) suggests, at least to me, that
your soul is wanting you to solve the puzzle.

 When we ( we, collectively )
have recurring syncs as well as dreams, especially
nightmares our soul is trying to get our attention
for a very important reason which in
a metaphysical sense that reason is to resolve.
Every puzzle piece is chaos, until it's solved.

Also  WW appears to suggest  using Yogi Berra's pen surname
  symbolically ( Bear) as a possible connection to Peter.
However my question is why only explore
Berra's pen surname, why not his first pen name Yogi?
Copy and paste wiki about the  Yogi : asterisks mine
"Carrying within oneself **** fire and poison,
 heaven and earth, ranging from enthusiasm
 and creativity to depression and agony,
from the heights of spiritual bliss to the
*** heaviness of earth-bound labor.

 This is true of man in general and the [Vedic]
Keśin in particular, but the latter has mastered
and **transformed** these contrary forces
 and is a visible embodiment of accomplished
 spirituality. He is said to be light and enlightenment itself.

 The Keśin does not live a normal life of convention.
 His hair and beard grow longer.

They wear clothes made of yellow***
 rags fluttering in the wind, or perhaps more likely
, they go ***naked, clad only in the yellow
 dust of the Indian soil.
 
But their personalities are*** not bound to earth***
, for they follow the path of the mysterious ***wind
when the gods enter them***.
~~~~~~~
 Recall my many comments
regarding yellow and the 'wind' which I've commented
recently about the wind and air symbolism of
the bird in your pigeon post and the Green Language
i.e. The Language of the Birds.

Also note the Yogi's connection to naked.

In your woods post you wrote : "It was a Taiwanese film
 called 九槍, about a Vietnamese illegal alien
 who was shot nine times by Taiwanese police
 while he was attempting to steal a cop car
while ***naked  and high on drugs."
~~~~~~

Ra1119bee said...

William
Part 2 
To be naked is to shed the illusion or the mask
we wear much
like the Greeks' gymnasium meaning
'naked',
which I had a very interesting dream
in 2005 or so I titled: Gymnasium.

Before and at the time of the dream, I didn't have a
clue as what symbolically a gymnasium meant
 until many years later.

I don't recall exactly the date or year of the Gymnasium
dream. It's buried in my archives, but I do recall
the dream quite vividly as it woke me up immediately.

In the dream I walked into a large gym in what appeared
to be in a high school. The gym actually remined me of the
gymnasium where I went to high school.
In both the dream and IRL, I recall
 the beautiful polished wood flooring
 ( interesting the wood connection again, no? ).

In the middle of the gym was a round circle
of chairs with people sitting in the chairs.
 There was one chair left and
I felt as if it was mine. 

I sat in my chair and what appeared to be the instructor
 or leader of the group said to me : Welcome!.
He called my name, however I don't recall the name.

It was a very long name ( it wasn't English)
and it started with the letter M.

He then said that I could 'get anything I wanted'
and I thought that meant because of my
siddhis/Übermensch powers.
 I also felt that all of those people in
that circle had those same powers too.

   I recall being very upset as I felt that I had used
the Scared Knowledge for personal gain,
 and for controlling people
 which is what the Negative Polarity
EL's  (11's ) do.

 I recall running out of the gym 
crying and shouting, NO NO NO !... 
I was very frightened.


My Gymnasium dream is one of many of
my puzzle pieces that have 
convinced me that we all must pay back a Karmic Debt
which my Karmic Debt is  19.
I believe that it's in our nakedness and darkness we
are stripped of the illusion and we see the truth.

 I didn't find the information about the Greek gymnasium
meaning naked until many years later
when I read this :
Copy and paste:
"The Greek gymnasia also held lectures
and discussions on philosophy, 
literature, and ***music***, and there were public libraries nearby.

and this and Plato:
"Gymnasia became public places where philosophers
 could congregate for discussion and where sophists 
could offer samples of their wisdom...

 and this : ( which I just found today ( Aug 27) which is a header
in a paragraph . 
2. Athenian Education Prior to Plato’s Academy:
Old Education, Sophists, 
Socrates and his*** Circle
~~~~~~~
Music and the Word ( symbolic of the libraries perhaps )
 also has an interesting connection
to a recent movie I watched
titled Frequencies. ( link below )

Ra1119bee said...

 William
Part 3
So, if adding Yogi Berra to the Frost ( Fire and Ice )
puzzle pieces ( i.e. syncs ) I would assume it's because
 of the one quote which Berra is noted for : 'it ain't over
till it's over."

Which circles us back  (like the ouroboros itself)
 to once again begging the question:' What, exactly,
is over?

The ouroboros sheds its old skin and begins a new
one.
I think many of your syncs are leading you
a big picture which I believe is transformation.

Perhaps not an individual transformation
but possibly a humanitarian one,
 which is what Pisces' do best. 
 Probably why your calling has been
one of a teacher?
As Pisces , we sacrifice or serve.

I believe that the soul transcends linear space and
time and if that's true, being given 'puzzle pieces'
 ( in this case the Robert Frost sync at age 15 ) is
the same as being given your first Frost sync
15 minutes, 15 days or 15 seconds ago.

The soul never gives up on us when it comes
to helping us learn a particular lesson
in each incarnation and will persist,
perhaps with the same fiery commitment as
Yogi Berra's quote : it ain't over till it's over.

.
 All IMHO, of course.

 And speaking of 'Music ' and the Word
check out the movie Frequencies which popped up
on my youtube feed the other day. I've never seen 
the movie  before however it mirrors a whole lot of my personal
 puzzle pieces ( including the gymnasium puzzle piece)
which is probably why the sync fairies made sure
that particular movie crossed my path.

Everything is connected. No?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi

Frequencies Official Trailer (2014)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22VVuQI4kgc

Frequencies---Full movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgJcZQVuwTk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_(ancient_Greece)

https://iep.utm.edu/plato-academy/

Ra1119bee said...

William,
I forgot to add that in the movie Frequencies,
nick-names are given to several of the very high
frequency students. ( see link )

At the very beginning of the movie
the high frequency student whose
name caught my 'ear' was called:
Theodor-Adorno "Theo" Strauss.

As you can imagine, when I heard that name
I knew that this movie was meant
for me to watch.

I believe that our soul Always knows: what, when and how
the information that we need to either validate
our puzzle pieces that we do have OR
create another puzzle piece to help us
in our soul's goal to solve the puzzle.

If you recall I commented about Theodor-Adorno
and my perspective as far as believing
the 'conspiracy theory' that Adorno was the songwriter
of the Beatles Catalog.

And while that particular information
is not very well known (or I should say: admitted to
and therefore accepted
as fact : 'just a conspiracy theory ) I find
it VERY interesting that one of the
high frequency students in this 2013 British Sci-Fi
movie character's nickname
is Theodore Adorno.

I personally do not believe in coincidences,
especially considering who and what
this student does at the end of the movie
and how it connects with Adorno
and the Beatles Brand, which I shared my
perspective on as to Why in
previous comments on your blog.

Keep in mind, if you decide to look
at the movie, that I just found this movie
a day ago. I've never seen it before.

IMHO, the metaphysical is very very real
and to me extremely intriguing
because it's powerful.

I read the information and
formed my perspective about Adorno
only several years ago, not back in the day
when I was a huge Beatle fan.

If you get a chance check the movie out.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Frequencies_(film)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_W._Adorno

Ra1119bee said...

William,
After doing a bit for research,
look at what I just found !!

The character as a young student
with the highest frequency of all the
other students is named
Marie played by the British actress
***Lily Laight!!!
Wow....what's the odds, a Lily??!

The character of Marie as an adult
is played by another British actress
Eleanor ( an EL ! ) Wyld.
What's the odds??!!

Dem syn fairies be extremely busy
these days.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2284961/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lily_Laight

Wm Jas Tychonievich said...

This post highlights how Holland quotes a poem and then follows it up with a quote from Proverbs, which he describes as "less poetic."

Hours after posting it, I received an email from bookseller Richard Johnson with an attached catalogue of books on the subject of "OT Wisdom and Poetry." The preeminent book of "OT Wisdom" is of course Proverbs, so we have Proverbs juxtaposed with poetry again.

Ra1119bee said...

William,
Part 1 of 2 
I just wanted to add that in my Gymnasium dream,
the circle of people sitting
in the chairs were just a few.
 Although I didn't count the number of people
however I do recall that the circle was not large,
 I would say maybe 10, 15 people or so.

I didn't get a sense at all of their ethnicity
as I didn't actually 'see' them, I just was aware
 of their presence including the instructor/leader of the group.

After I took my seat, and the leader said Welcome
 and called my name
 (a name beginning with the letter M and a name
I didn't recognize (it wasn't English)
 I felt that we all knew each other and like I shared
in my previous comment, I felt that we all
possessed the same ' siddhis/Übermensch powers.

Update! I decided to google Greek Deities
in mythology with names starting with a M
and found a  very interesting list indeed ( see links )
I didn't recognize any of the names as being
the name the leader of the circle called me
so I just chose a few 'long  M names.

So when I researched Gymnasium after having
the dream, over 20 years ago! and finding
the very intriguing Greek meaning I knew I found
the meaning of the dream. Especially earlier today
( Aug 27 ) finding the article about Plato's
circle! When I read the information about Plato's
circle I was absolutely in awe of the soul's knowledge
and power to help us see beyond the illusion
and seeing into the future, past and present.

In this case, seeing 20 years into the future
and finding the meaning of why (in the 2005 dream)
 the circle of a few ( El's )  in a gymnasium.
It's fascinating. At least to me.
I absolutely believe that we all have this ability.
We are more than our physical bodies.

Ra1119bee said...

William,
part 2

Update! I decided to google Greek Deities
in mythology with names starting with a M
and very interesting indeed the list.

I didn't recognize any of the names as being
the name the leader of the circle called me
so I just chose a few long M names to research.

I found the Greek name Melampus  interesting especially after
reading the wiki description of this Greek Deity.
Copy and paste ; asterisks mine
"In Greek mythology, Melampus (/mɪˈlæmpəs/; Ancient Greek: 
Μελάμπους, Melampous[1]) was a
***legendary soothsayer and healer,***
 originally of Pylos, who ruled at Argos.

 He was the introducer of the worship of Dionysus,
 according to Herodotus, who ***asserted that his powers
 as a seer were derived from the Egyptians***and that he 
could ***understand the language of animals***

. A number of ***pseudepigraphal works of divination**
 were circulated in Classical and Hellenistic
times under the name Melampus."
~~~~~~~~~
My first thought was: what's
the odds that all of this description fits me
almost to the T , in this incarnation
including understanding the language of animals.
If Melampus possessed these siddhis abilities especially
as an Oracle he most certainly would be one of the El's.

Also keep in mind, and if you believe in reincarnation
 our soul reincarnates in many skins, cultures
 and both genders so the fact that Melampus was a male
makes no difference whatsoever.


 LO AND BEHOLD another sync just happened!
While typing this and listening to one of
 my youtube music mixes' playlist
, an old school 1965 song by the Motown
group The Four Tops titled : The Same Old Song
 started playing.

If you're familiar with youtube  mixes , you'll know
that youtube's algo determines the mixes according
to the songs that I've listened too in my youtube history.

So not really a huge sync, but I have hundreds of songs
that I listen to, so I'm not sure what the odds are
that this particular song would play.
What caught my ear, however was the first verse about
the honeybee.
Note that I love this song by the Four Tops from
back in the day so I'm very familiar with the lyrics
but hearing the bee lyrics again got my attention.

Also interesting is the number 4 again.
4 is the portal.

The Same Old Song
Verse 1
You're sweet (You're sweet) as a honeybee
But like a honeybee stings, you've gone
and left my heart in pain
All you left (All you left) is our favorite song
The one we danced to all night long
It used to bring sweet memories (Sweet memories)
Of a tender love that used to be
~~~~~~~~
Perhaps regarding my recent Gymnasium
comments the sync fairies 
are reminding me that the soul 'plays' the same old song
over and over again  'until' we get the message',
In other words:  it ain't over until it's over.

 interestingly that's  Exactly what I've been
commenting on as far as recurring dreams
and synchronicity events.

[Chorus]
Now it's the same old song
But with a different meaning since you've been gone
Now it's the same, same old song
But with a different meaning (Since you've been gone)
~~~~~~~
Everything is connected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melampus

https://www.greeklegendsandmyths.com/m---atoz-greek-mythology.html

The Same Old Song—-Four Tops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iMYUZvQtE8

repost Plato and gymnasium 
https://iep.utm.edu/plato-academy/

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